Interview with opposition writer Jan Dundar About freedom of speech and the Kurdish issue in Türkiye

Prelude:
The year 2016 marked as milestone in the pragmatism nature of Turkish political discourse, as well as the radical path taken by the AKP leadership in an approach. Moreover, each opponent to the ruling party is accused of various kinds of pretexts. foremost among them is belonging to the political entity of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) or the group of cleric Fethullah Gulen. Where, to criticize the policy of the President of the Republic becomes an insult to his presidential self. Which can put the critical person years in prison. Within a judicial context that became lack of independence following Erdogan's forced demobilization against all the groups that opposed him in State institutions, starting with the judiciary and ending with the army and education institutions.
Within these contexts, the freedom of expression has become a political crime. However, the journalists and writers lost their media space to express their views against the ruling party's policies. this was after the ruler’s party made a constitutional amendment in 2017, he concentrated most of the powers in the hands of President Erdogan. Moreover, series of international reports subsequently emerged, describing Turkey as the world's largest journalists' prison. After most media outlets - 95% according to opponents - were forced to submit to Turkish government domination. As confirmed by the report of the Press Freedom Index of the Reuters Institute of Journalism Studies at Oxford University, which showed that freedom of the press in Turkey experienced a significant decline between 2002 and 2018, it is ranked 157 out of 181 countries in the World Press Freedom Report.
Perhaps more one, who can explain the of a problem of freedom of expression in Turkey, he is the former chairman of oldest and most widely disseminated newspaper in turkey, Jan Dundar. Where in the 2015, he published a collection of official documents and documented videos of the militarization of the Islamic State in Syria by Turkish intelligence. Subsequently, it was found that the lucrative arms trade with ISIL was in close contact with President Erdogan.
Jan Dundar (62), he's a journalist and documentary filmmaker, return its publication of the above documents, the Turkish judiciary accused him of "insulting the President of the Republic, State institutions and the Turkish people." He was released on bail after three months, and was subjected to an assassination attempt in court, after which he fled to Germany in 2016, where he resides under strict protection. He was sentenced in absentia to 27 years.
To highlight these details and others, we contacted him and held a press meeting.

Q1: Since the incidents of Gezi Park in Istanbul in 2013, the independent journalism has been losing its position in Turkey. According to Amnesty International’s report in 2017, Turkish Media has gradually submitted or become under control a single authority, after 180 media outlets were closed and 2,500 professional’s journalists lost their jobs.in addition the Elimination of opponents that included the judiciary and many army officers who did not agree with the Justice and Development Party policies regarding the intervention in Syrian war. With the constitutional amendment in 2017, Erdogan became the first president after Ataturk to rule Turkey for a long period. The Executive authority now tightens control over the rest of the authorities. Can it be said that Turkey has entered the stage of Dictator Leader and tyrannical rule?

Jan: Actually, we cannot say that there are still people existing in Turkey, and I would not say that turkey become a dictatorship but it’s on the way I mean the Erdoğan’s aims to be the Sultan-
(سلطان) of the country, or they called Islamic world may be.
But this saw in the last Election, I mean half of people were against him, and there is still a strong resistance against him in the country and I trust that this resistance would stop him.
When it comes to Turkish media, this is my almost 44 years in journalism in Turkey, so Turkish media has never been a democratic one, we have not felt free in any time in the history so it’s nothing new, but with Erdogan its of course intensified the pressure and it has never been a paradise but has never been a hill like today (nowadays).
That is why of course we have been experiencing a very difficult time. the pressure is high and unfortunately Turkish media is mostly under the control of the government . but there are still some tv stations, newspapers and brave journalist try to resistant, try to give the people what information they need . and They are still supporting freedom of expression but under a very hard condition because the risk is high, there are many journalists in jail or in exile or under threat.so It’s not easy to challenge the
government and many of our colleagues were attacked or guiled or persecuted , that is why it’s now our turn if we can do something from outside from exile that’s why we build up own medias structure and we are trying to reach our audience from Germany.

Q/ are there any independent organizations or syndicate in Turkey, that protect and defend journalists’ rights?

Jan : Yes of course there are many Initiative-like reporters without borders, Amnesty International they are all independent international global organization fighting for journalist and journalist unions, and journalist trade union- .
Yes, there are many its likely civil society so that’s why am not pessimistic about future of turkey.

Q/ The entire political scene in Turkey seems to be based on racist rhetoric or racist discourse. During the last presidential election, the platform of the presidential candidates appeared as a race of hate. Even the first sentence of Erdogan immediately after announcing his victory was: that he had defeated the supporters of Qandil Mountains. How can we talk about a democratic system in a country that only produces extreme nationalist discourse?

-Well, its again it’s not only Erdogan unfortunately, I mean last hundred years we experience this extremist nationalist even racist approaching turkey from many parties. We can say that its better today, I mean comparing to last decades because there is a strong Kurdish resistance in the country. Kurds are more organized powerful thy have their party in parliament and

Q/ But on the other side Kurd have been facing oppression from Erdogan because of their national affiliation?

I mean do not you think it’s the same during the thirty’s, forty’s, sixties, and seventy’s, Eighty, I mean it was more less always the case, I mean during the fifty’s, during eighties for example there was a military rule, and the army demolished all the villages in Kurdish areas and there was a huge torture in another cities like Diyarbakir they were suffering. During ninety’s Kurdish newspaper were bombed in Istanbul and demolished und censored.
So, I mean, I am coming from this history, so I know that nothing is new. But of course, Erdogan is a new powerful leader who has a national approach, but at the same time he was the one who try to finish the war and start ten years or fifteen years ago a new negotiation with PKK .
Q/ Yes you are right he has made a peace with PKK, but it has failed on the other hand, he has been starting to jail Kurdish leaders, activists, journalists, and parliaments member, for instance Salahadin Demertsh , beside he had demolished and had destroyed most of the Kurdish villages?

Jan : I mean look at Etta, look at ayarey ….. it took five decades to get solution , so it’s not easy every were in the world. Look at Colombia I mean where it’s a deep conflict for years it’s not so easy to find a solution , it was the first try in turkeys’ history , for the first time they came together Turkish intelligence met with PKK so, of course it was great, but we are all aware that it would not be so easy . now it turning to another war they put Salaheddin Dimertash in jail, but I do not think it’s all over now, yes, they put Salaheddin and other leaders in jail, but the struggle will go on. if we determine to struggle against this tyranny against this saltanist(sultani), it will not be easy for Erdogan to take over turkey.
it’s easy to say everything is bad, everything is getting worse, I am optimistic we must defend turkey, I mean we need democracy we need to make it stronger and get off Erdogan. Therefore, we need solidarity and struggle, and determination to struggle for democracy in turkey.

Q/ Q/ since the coup attempt 2016, there have been many international reports about Turkey becoming a prison for journalists in the world. Once a journalist is Kurdish, he is directly accused of belonging to a terrorist organization. Thus, defending them becomes like being involved in a crime. How can the media influence or modify the repressive policies of the Turkish authority, considering a state divided into visible institutions and deep, controlling institutions?

Jan: Ian not a Kurd but I was accused of being a member of terrorist organization, so you do not have to be blame you are terrorist , there is a huge list of terrorists in Turkey full of Turks, Kurds, Alavies, even Gulanist, so it’s not only Kurds but of of course to be a journalist in the Kurdish area.
q/ but do not you think its double for Kurdish because of the nationality ?

really, I don’t know, do you have numbers? There are 15- 19 journalists in jail now. but five years ago it was 150 so what happen to them? so I do not know how many of them are Kurds or Turks, off course it colleagues, difficult to be journalist in Kurdish area but all the media is under the control and under the pressure, so that’s why we are in contact with Kurdish colleagues and we are working together, here we have TV stations and Radio and we have to work together. The thing is there are less journalists in Gail’s comparing to five years ago, but the reason is not that the government is not more democratic, but the media is more supresst and there is a self-censorship. most of them are not brave anymore to write or to talk against the government, this is more important at the moment , nobody wants of course to go to jail or go to exile , they are more careful about the writing extra. That is why people cannot get true information, now it is our duty to reach them from the far and giving them the information, they need.
Q/ As a writer, journalist, and former editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet newspaper, you faced imprisonment. You were shot in front of the court during a break in the court session, and the accused was released after only two weeks. Does this mean that the judiciary in Turkey is politicized?
Jan: of course, it’s a kind of party system everything police, army, judiciary are all under the party’s control , there is no independent justice system, so they are expecting Erdogan’s sign to release or arrest someone. that’s why nobody trust the judiciary system in turkey . Unfortunately, five years ago it was a bit deferent but now Erdogan has almost full power over judiciary, and this is dangerous, how can you defend yourself if you do not have independent judges.

Q/ what about civil society organization, are they also getting weak?

Yes its getting weaker, I mean it used to be more dynamic civil society, but of course when you are arrested in demonstration you cannot get out because of this, so the police is so dependent on the government, the judiciary dependent on the government, people are less brave to go to street under these circumstances, that is why I mean should be the parties and big organizations’ should get in and protect the people, unfortunately otherwise if you are alone you cannot do it by yourself.

Q/ why are you accused that your problem with Erdogan is look like a personal problem, particularly in the issue of arms smuggling to terrorist groups in Syria? Especially since there is an allegation or claim that during your period as head of Cumhuriyet newspaper, many journalists were affiliated with the opposition figure Fethullah Gulen?

Jan: yes, it’s a bite complicated story, I do not think it’s a personal thing but, Erdogan so sensitive about issues on intelligence (MIT). my story that I published that Turkish government, Turkish secret service was smuggling arms to Syria , where jihadist is there, was a kind of Erdogans personal secret so he was organizing the this trade and he get money out it most probably, that’s why he got angry that’s really , we show the footage and that evidences, that’s why he told it could take him to the international justice because it’s an international crime , and that is why he get creasy . Whoever touches Turkish intelligence services are in jail’s, there are many journalists in jail just because of their stories about intelligence service and they are not only Kurds, but also many people who touch the story. And the operation against Erdogan starts with the Gulan deviation , as you know Erdogan and Gulan was hand in hand for many years as you know. Erdogan the one who organize operation against Kurds, against lefts, against democracy in Turkey, when they were spitted, they started to accuse each other’s. and now Erdogan accusing them, and they are accusing Erdogan , and we were against both from the beginning . Erdogan saw this operation as Gulan conspiracy ….MIT attacks, that’s why he accuses me of being a Gulanist, so this is funny, and this is the case.

Q/ Q/ Ismail Beşekçi said: as did the novelist Aslı Erdoğan : That the hatred is a part of the educational process in Turkey, whether at school through racist chants or at home. While Ahmed Altan called for rebuilding the political culture to get out of internal hatred system in Turkey... However, we notice the spread of populism in Turkey. Do you believe that Turkish culture and media can resist and produce political alternatives to get out of the spiral of accumulated historical violence?

Jan: yes, there is one man, one party system in the moment Turkey so its Erdogan and his party and he wants to be the sultans of this country and he was demolished all the other parties, for me as far as I can see, if we allowed him , so of course he is not the only one all the whole republic Ideology based on Turkishness of nationalist feelings, from the beginning , hundred years ago this country build up as a constitution just praising Turkishness refusing the Kurds and extra.
Now we are talking about hundred years of old history and of course when the constitutions said we are only Turks and there is nothing like Kurds in the country and of course the educational system according to this and cultures according to this. If you say hey come on there is Kurds in this country, the government always saying that there is nothing such a Kurd, they are all Turks. So that is why complicated problem, it’s not only education not only culture system, not only political system. So, it is Not only people mindset but all together.
So, we need a real mindset revolution should say that a deferent people living in this country. We can do it through political cultural, educational revolution, changing everything and rebuilding the whole country, but I guess in the one hand it seems impossible and on the other hand people understand now. I remember eighties I was a journalist during that time it was almost impossible to say Kurd in turkey or listen to Kurdish music or even talk in your mother tongue as Kurd. Now you can listen to your music, use your mother tongue, there are Kurdish parliaments and Kurdish municipalities so comparing to eighties I guess we are in better situations; it was worst. Kurds gain some rights now but of course it is not enough. I guess after Erdogans Era people would say and understand that having deferent culture in the country is richness not a weakness, thanks God we have Kurds we have Elvis, Armenians, Jewish in the country. This is richness, this is the power of turkey, therefore it is not just got rid of them or call of them Turks, but in the contrary, you should be proud of them, we have Kurdish community they are living under democratic rule. I guess in the long run, our solution ist to come together with the Kurdish people and build up this republic again and saying now we are working on it to make it more democratic and that is the solution.

Q/ do you have hope that happen one day?

Jan : Yes, why not ? change will come it’s not faraway we will see it , without hope we cannot stay alive , but I am not expecting the alliance coming from the space and changing everything , of course we must struggle , and that is our duty and responsibility .